The Art of Differentiation: Reclaiming the Human Touch in Sales with Patrick Kagan

Do you ever feel like sales has lost its human touch? Don't miss our enlightening conversation with internationally renowned podcast host, business coach, and author Patrick Kagan, who sheds light on this issue. We discuss his insights on how sales has become robotic and the importance of finding and maintaining our unique selling propositions to differentiate ourselves from the competition. Patrick also shares valuable information about the training offered by the National Association of Sales Professionals and why differentiation is both the number one most important skill and the most neglected in professional development.

Together, we explore the power of practicing consistency, commitment, and patience to make differentiation a standard in our sales approach. We dive into the world of proper intent and how it can help us make the right decisions, and how using hate and fear as motivators can fuel our growth. Additionally, we discuss the importance of introspection and Peter Drucker's quote, "What you measure, you can improve." This episode is filled with actionable advice and valuable insights on becoming a standout sales professional through the art of differentiation, so tune in and discover the secret sauce to separate yourself from the competition!

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Transcript

Patrick Kagan: 0:00

Hate your current situation so much, hate your pain right now so much on the inside that you do something positive about it on the outside.

Voice Over: 0:10

Everything leads to growth with the National Association for Sales Professionals. The Leads to Growth podcast with the National Association for Sales Professionals provides in-depth discussions, sharing the best sales prospecting, influence and communication skills, as well as sales training techniques to take your professional sales career to the next level.

Chris McCoy: 0:32

Hello and welcome to another episode of You Guess That Leads to Growth, y'all. My name is Chris McCoy, your host with the National Association of Sales Professionals, and today you know we've got an OG in the game. We've got Patrick Kagan. How you doing, patrick, i'm good Chris. How you doing, i'm doing very well. You know, when I say an OG, you know we talk to a lot of people that are in the marketing space, in this space, that space. But Patrick is a bit in the marketing space now. But this guy has led senior sales and national sales for companies such as Procter and Gamble, hewlett Packard and many others. You know he now owns Marketing Agency PK Solutions Group and is also internationally renowned podcast host and business coach and author of the new book, which is really why I wanted to have him on the podcast today. Sell the difference the alternate guide to increasing sales, profits and customer satisfaction through the art of differentiation, differentiation, different There's an extra, a differentiation.

Patrick Kagan: 1:30

Differentiation.

Chris McCoy: 1:31

Differentiation. There we go. I'm a little slow this morning. y'all It's OK. Differentiation And this is. You know that we talk about this all the time on the show. We become robots often time and sales, especially the SDR work. You follow the scripts, you follow, you know all these things, your mass and out people messages. We lost the humanness of sales a lot in what we do, and that's where our uniqueness is, that's where our unique selling proposition is, that's where our only statement is, that's where our differentiation is And this is where people want to connect with us. And I love that you brought this to the table, Patrick. What brought you to this? writing this book here today, man?

Patrick Kagan: 2:15

Yeah, cool. And when I hear oh gee, i just think original guru.

Patrick Kagan: 2:20

So I'm really I'm really I'm thrilled. So I mean, you know, it's a life's journey when anybody writes a book. For sure, whatever stage of life they're at, whatever they've had before, that has prepared them for that. And my world, like you had mentioned, was a lot of Fortune 500 companies, always an entrepreneur deep down in my heart. And so when I left and decided to have my own thing 15 years ago, it wasn't that I was a disgruntled employee and you know screw the man type of thing, as much as I just knew that I liked doing my own thing and growing my own business and responsiveness to clients, and I did find that I could differentiate much quicker working on my own as opposed to working through an organization. There's many layers and that type of thing. So that's, you know, kind of what led me to write in my book.

Patrick Kagan: 3:14

When I first started trying to write a book it was about 1998, 1999. And I was a road warrior. I was traveling coast to coast as on and off a plane all the time. My motivation and road warriors, everything in the past now That's a thing of the past, yeah, but my motivation was to get off the road. I wanted to stop living in hotels and that type of thing And I would hit writer's block time and time again because my motivation was really more of a self-serving type thing and avoid the travel as opposed to what is this about and who is it for and what will it do for them.

Patrick Kagan: 3:49

So flash forward to about a year and a half or two years ago and on my own podcast, one of my guests happens to be one of the top published authors in the world. I didn't know this and I'm just having a great conversation with this guy And we finish and we talk offline and he says when are you publishing your book? I'm like I don't have a book. He's like you have three books for sure. You just need clarity in which book you're going to publish first. And he's like you have a way of differentiating your points. And that hit me. I'm like that's kind of what has helped me to succeed in sales. And so he mentored me and helped me through getting clarity of vision.

Patrick Kagan: 4:34

What is differentiation? Why is it important? And it was really telling to me And you mentioned something about how we can kind of lose something compared to the old days, where we're back in the days where it was face to face time with clients. And when the pandemic hits the world, it suddenly runs zoom calls and we get farther removed, and the farther removed the more similar we become. In sales. Similarity is a death wish and you need to differentiate. So the importance now is greater than ever before, and it's the number one most important skill and yet the number one most neglected skill. You don't find professional development seminars devoted to differentiation. This book is a playbook on how to do that.

Chris McCoy: 5:18

I really love that And it speaks a lot to there's definitely differences, but it speaks a lot to the training that we offer at NASP And I think what happens is, even if you do, let's say, you take the time to find out what makes you different and what makes you special, right, you still have to maintain that internal motivation, to trust that within you and to go out there. Because the challenge with salespeople is they may roll into sales feeling different and feeling unique And really that joy of a salesperson when they first start a position, especially back in the day when it wasn't just sitting behind a desk picking up a phone. We actually work it to go out there and talk to people. You'd see this, what do we call it? blind ignorance? They would do amazing because they would say that way. Once they got beaten down, once the outside started changing how they feel on the inside, once they became externally motivated as opposed to the internal motivation, that's when they started to get. They started to look like everyone else and respond like yeah.

Patrick Kagan: 6:21

And this book is all about finding the intrinsic value for you as a salesperson And, more importantly, for the customer. See, the real important thing about this book is it's your sales secret weapon, because you learn to sell the way a customer is longing to buy. They are tired of salespeople all sounding the same And at some point they carry around this invisible mute button and they put you on mute and you have to ask yourself how often am I presenting on mute? Sometimes I win a sale. I don't even know how it happened. Sometimes I don't get a sale. I don't know how that happened. And so the whole thing is really looking at how does a person choose to buy, how do they want to buy, and do we spend time with the right clients or do we just spend time with all others? And that's the two categories I put them in.

Chris McCoy: 7:12

So let's get down to some action steps. All right, so I'm a salesperson out there. and what are the foundations of differentiation? Yeah, so I'm a salesperson out there. or also, your book talks about the four disciplines. Yeah, where can we start to really understand what this is and how we can break it down within what we are?

Patrick Kagan: 7:30

Yeah, there's two things. So the first is really understanding where differentiation comes from, and a lot of times we hear people use words that have become buzzwords. I hear people all the time saying I'm authentically curious or I'm curious Well, it's become a buzzword and it's lost its value. So differentiation is an outcome of two things a stimulus and a response. The stimulus is true empathy. You're able to truly experience, or have experience or see things from the other person's side. Empathy meaning I see, feel and know what another group or person or corporation is going through.

Patrick Kagan: 8:10

I felt your pain. Other customers of mine have felt your pain. Let me not jump on this with a one size fits all solution. Let me dig into what's causing your pain but, more importantly, what's the cost of that pain to you? Is it time, is it energy? Is it manpower? So the stimulus is empathy. The response, then, is curiosity. You ask questions that have to do with what if? and your customer, if you have an ideal customer. They respond to what if It's like? what if we do nothing? What will happen to you? What if we implement my changes? What will happen to you? What if we implement part of this? What if we try to do this for less money. What if, what if, what if is the curiosity driver, and that's what drives differentiation. That's the first part.

Chris McCoy: 9:01

And just a comment on that. He said something. He said true empathy. Don't fake the empathy, y'all. That's even worse than not pretending to be empathetic. There's nothing worse than somebody going oh really, oh man, well, tell me what would happen if you don't buy for me today? How bad would that hurt you? When you can tell it's just a manipulation, when it's inauthentic? you have to be authentic and you have to truly care about that person. So ask it in the proper way. So don't ask it. Hey, what happens if you don't buy today?

Chris McCoy: 9:34

Ask it why is this an urgent decision for you all right now? I mean really, what is this costing you on a daily So we can really and be real, talk to them like they're a real person. Why am I seeing this? so that we can both understand logically the pain. Because if there isn't costing you anything, then you're not going to have an urgency to buy And I'm not going to have an urgency to sell you because there's not a really big difference in doing the business. So now we can both walk away together evenly and happily. But if there is a pain there and if it is costing us, then our awareness will be an insight for us to make a good, smart, educated decision.

Patrick Kagan: 10:07

Absolutely. And you made some great points, because sincerity is really what you do, not what you say, and so everything speaks. So I could lie to your face with a smile on my face, and you could say, hey, he's a trustworthy guy and blah, blah, blah. But I lied to you. But my actions will never lie. Actions are truth. That's why, when you're on mute, what you do speaks louder than what you say. And remember, customers are conditioned that all you salespeople sound the same And you don't know your value. So I will tell you your value And ultimately, i have to do my job. I'm going to buy from somebody. I want to eliminate that, and so what I do to differentiate is I demonstrate differentiation. The minute someone tells you you know, i'm a kind person, i'm curious. Well, it makes you question if you are, why do you have to say it?

Chris McCoy: 10:58

I literally just had this conversation with a coworker the other day And I love him And the fact that we got into it, was you know, and really just decided to understand each other was really even more fun about it. But the fact is he said, oh, i'm curious. I said no, no, no. Now I know that you're just trying to manipulate me, because if you're curious, you would have asked a question a minute ago, before this became a, before I became a little upset and moved away from this thing Now, because you've realized you've lost me. Now you're coming back and telling me you're curious, when I obviously know that you're not, and so that was a good point And you just illustrated.

Patrick Kagan: 11:31

you just illustrated a great point. So in that scenario, if you're the client and that person is the salesperson curiosity, empathy, differentiation, they exist in your mind. first you recognize it, that nobody has to say it, and when they say it they take away from themselves And you know right now everybody's saying they're curious and authentic and playful and everything else. And salespeople they learn through model behavior. they may have learned the wrong model behavior and they go repeat that.

Patrick Kagan: 12:02

So you have to take a step back and you have to say what is my ideal customer? look like, sound like, how do they do business? And then what is an ideal sales person look like and sound like and how do they do business?

Patrick Kagan: 12:13

And you have to marry the two up And I spend a lot of time reminding people that they spend time with the wrong people, because those people spend money with their company. And I'm not saying let go of all your corporate objectives or don't make your goals or don't go out and sell. But if a salesperson is selling and spending time with a wrong client, that client will leave you. But if you spend time with the right client, they'll never leave you. So empathy and curiosity is what everything is built on. Now you asked me about the four disciplines of execution. No, i'm sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, that's it man.

Patrick Kagan: 12:49

Yeah So four disciplines of execution. that's the cornerstones of what guided me through building this book and my consulting program. So it's not a chapter in there. you won't find it in there, so you'll hear it now. And by the way, chris, just for your listeners, i put together a promo code, only for your listeners. So if they decide they like this book and they want to go and order this book at the point of purchase the promo code McCoy, your last name they get another 10% off the book.

Patrick Kagan: 13:16

Yeah, so it's bringing value to everybody already, But the four disciplines.

Chris McCoy: 13:22

MCC, oh why.

Patrick Kagan: 13:23

MCC, oh why? Yeah, And it's, it's, it's well worth it at the face value. But if I have another 10, 10% off for your listeners, it would be a nice, nice treat. So let's get into the four disciplines of differentiation. So the first one and I don't I don't promote hate ever in anything. I'm not a fan of that as a motivator. But when it comes to being disciplined, i do use it to make my point Hate your current situation so much, hate your pain right now, so much on the inside, that you do something positive about it on the outside. And I'll give you an example. I'm a, i'm a military veteran.

Patrick Kagan: 14:04

I spoke with a lot of veterans when I was putting together and compiling notes for this book And the topic of prisoner of war came up. And it's a horrific experience for sure. But I did discover two different mindsets. There were those that, to get them through that experience, they maintained hope, hope for seeing their family, hope for the war to end, hope for whatever situation, and they would put up with any hardship to get to that hope. That's a mindset That's good. That's a survival mindset. There are others that said I hate this so much, there is no risk too great for me to get the hell out of this situation Now. Both are both our mindsets, both our strategies. Neither are wrong. But for differentiation, you need to hate losing income, you need to hate losing customers, you need to hate to drift through your career or you need to hate the fact that you don't know how to forecast And you have to go through that with your boss all the time. Hate something so much that you do something about it. That's the first.

Chris McCoy: 15:07

Patrick, i love that We talk about that at NASP. We talk about that as moving towards and moving away from right. Yeah, oftentimes moving away from pain, the pain of like I can't live here in this way. Another second I can't get up and do this sales job and feel this pain. Another I hate this so much that I have to do something to change right. And that's a great motive. That's gas on the fire that can sometimes get you going. It won't sustain you forever. You better then switch to that. All right. Now I want to get to this now. So bad, because now I've tasted the new. I've tasted what success feels like. I've tasted what happiness on a daily feels like. I've tasted what rock in my sales calls a knock, caring at all if a person says yes or no, because I know I'm delivering value and now I want that all the time.

Patrick Kagan: 15:59

Yeah, and you know you're exactly right, because hate Hating your situation right now, that's motivation. So motivation is getting up right And loving the outcomes. That's momentum. So you're really after momentum. Momentum keeps you going.

Patrick Kagan: 16:14

So I hate gets you to stand up. Momentum keeps you going. So hate turns to love. I love this so much and I did a really cool experiment with a leader in a sales organization a small group, probably five, six salespeople and Scratching your head my salespeople are lazy, they're not motivated. I created this incentive plan. I'm gonna pay them all this when they do all this. I said, okay, i think they're more motivated by Stop behavior rather than start behavior. So let me suggest to you That you give them the commissions right now. Give it to them. Well, i haven't done anything. I said give it to him. It's theirs to lose. See what happens. They blew through the objectives. He couldn't get them to get up and move because he wasn't addressing what they hate. They hated the idea of giving the money back.

Patrick Kagan: 17:02

Yeah but they weren't motivated by doing more to get that money.

Chris McCoy: 17:06

Another I love, i absolutely love that. And another. Another replacement for that hate is that fear.

Patrick Kagan: 17:12

Yeah, yeah, fears, great motivation.

Chris McCoy: 17:14

I'm afraid of losing that.

Patrick Kagan: 17:16

I brought this money home, said to my Significant others look at what my boss gave me today. Wow, what do you have to do? I just have to go out and sell blah, blah, blah. We'll go do it. You know your, your home life becomes. You're afraid to lose it. So so hate your current situation.

Patrick Kagan: 17:30

That's the first one second Discipline of differentiation is you need to inspect what you expect. Okay and I you can change the words, i like to play with this introspect what you extra aspect what I want in the external world is What I need to be doing on my internal world. So when I say build an ideal customer profile, i'm also saying you need to stop and figure out what's an ideal salesperson profile. So the greatest analogy would be you know someone who plays basketball and They expect they want to be a better rebounder. Okay. So you can't say, if you say, okay, now I'm gonna be a rebounder, well you're not a rebounder. But when you're jumping more, when you're doing the exercises to become a rebounder, well then the whole world can see. It is obvious. And you need to say, wow, i inspect what I expect. I was rebounding ten rebounds a game. Now I'm at 20. It's working.

Chris McCoy: 18:27

I Love that. I love that You know that. a couple things come to mind. you know, um, what's the quote about culture? what you measure, you can improve, peter Drucker, i think, is what you said, and then also You mentioned something else there that really clicked with me and I can't Before you said what you inspect, you, you say introspect what you extra, extra aspect and what you say right before that.

Patrick Kagan: 18:53

That you want to inspect what you expect. So if you want to become something, you need to see that.

Chris McCoy: 18:58

Become, that's the word, yeah, but come, we call it becoming over getting. Oftentimes you want to get the thing and when you want to get the thing, you're frustrated because you don't get the thing and you focus On having the thing. and when you start to do the things to become the person that gets the thing And you're focusing on the things that you have to do to become Rewarding, it's more fulfilling, it's more joyful than it gets you there. So, yeah, i really love that.

Patrick Kagan: 19:22

It's there, all right because it becomes, implies the journey and implies ownership, which I'm a big fan of. I learned this the hard way When my kids were growing up and they would break a cell phone, i'd get them another one and I found that their their cell phones are breaking like crazy. Then when I said you have to buy it, wow, did they take care of it? Wow, cell phones weren't breaking. So and that was a lesson in leadership and a lesson in and I distinguish leadership versus management. But when you lead salespeople, it's okay that they have skin in the game. You don't have to give them everything, and you're not. And if you do everything for them, they can't do it when you're not there. Let them become The vision of what they believe and marry that up with what you want, and that's differentiation as a leader. So hate your current situation so much you do something about it. Inspect what you expect. The last two are Simple and concept and very hard in practice.

Patrick Kagan: 20:13

The the third discipline of differentiation is you have to do this daily. Differentiation is an unnatural Skill set. You have to learn it, but you have to practice it. And I put together in in sell the difference, two visual cues a sales differentiation curve from the sales perspective and you marry that up with a sales differentiation curve from the client perspective and they don't match. And When you do this, what it illustrates clearly is Differentiation. And success with differentiation is fluid, meaning it wants to flow downhill again. We have bad habits We want to fall back into. We go back to what's been modeled for us. If we change jobs and we want to show our boss how good we are, we go back to things we knew. But differentiation is the long game. It is something you do for the long game.

Patrick Kagan: 21:05

So when I say, identify the qualities of your ideal customer and spend time with them, you're doing business with a lot of folks who are not ideal. They'll switch on you and a dime, but you need to do business with them and you need to maintain your performance so that you have a job, but do it with a long-term view and a long-term effort and commit to it every single day. So you have to do Differentiation daily. I still have to remind myself What's going to make me different in this situation. What do I say and do? that sounds exactly like everybody else. I was at a networking event last night. I literally spent an hour ahead of time Previewing and reviewing What's my elevator pitch, because I don't want to go there and ramble and I don't want to sound like everybody else, because there's 80 people in the room and Most of them are there for the free food, but you're gonna find the one or two that really want to find that person that resonates with them. So daily practice and I still do it.

Chris McCoy: 22:01

I love that, and I love that about networking events too I always go. When I find my one or two, i'm out once. Once I got those two contacts, i'm like all right, cool, i'm gonna grab some food and I'm out of here, because that's yeah, i'm saturated. And then just collecting business cards after that, yeah exactly.

Patrick Kagan: 22:15

I don't want to do speed dating for business cards, not at all, and I love what you said of commitment and consistency.

Chris McCoy: 22:21

It's a. I mean, if you want to make it your stand, it's hard to do it sometimes, right, it's hard to change standard from from something lower to something that's stretching yourself. Yeah, you do it. It becomes who you are and it becomes easy. Yeah, what I always thought the challenge was, patrick, was when it wasn't my standard. I would then have to measure and judge every situation and every person based on if I thought there was an opportunity there or it was worth maintaining my standards. Right, that is this constant negotiation struggle. Am I making the right decision When, when you make it your standard, it's just easy to make the right decision, and that way, i mean, you're really being a true human. You're doing it out of proper intent, you're doing it not to get something out of return, but you're doing it because it is who you are, and then it's that's when it's appreciated.

Patrick Kagan: 23:06

Well, and that's one of the things I try to practice, what I preach. So one of the things I do as differentiation as an author those folks that they get my book I'm accessible to them, they can. they can check in with me and ask me and have questions like that Like, are my standards too high? Am I off? And that's not something I build them. They're not on the clock for that. They're one of my readers, they're one of my followers. There's abundance I'm building around myself. that has nothing to do with you doing a transaction to buy a book or one of my downloads. So I make myself accessible and there are not a lot of authors that do that. will take your phone call and say, yeah, chris, you know your standard is high or your KPIs are often, do you know what that does to your employees? We spend some quality time. I'm sure there are people who charge for that. It's just not about me.

Chris McCoy: 23:51

There are a lot of authors that do not not with your resume, though, unfortunately.

Patrick Kagan: 23:55

Yeah Well and then finally the last. The last discipline and it takes discipline is patience. And it's patience because not only are you learning a new skill, but once you've learned it, you're never perfecting it. It's like yoga you're practicing it. So you have to be patient with yourself, patient with the practice. The practice has to be the joy And you, you don't ever do anything wrong with differentiation. You learn from. It's like an experiment. You're like a scientist. There's not a mistake that you have to start over. I learned, i got this far. I learned. Now, when you go back, let me just avoid that circumstance a little further and let me try to disprove myself And then, when I can't, i have differentiated. When you do that, you'll know you'll hear customers saying I never thought about it like that before, chris. Oh, I never heard it that way before. Oh, chris, i just left that company and went here. Can you come with me? Those are signs that you have differentiated yourself.

Chris McCoy: 24:49

And you just stealing my language right from my head, and I love it so much, man, i think practice I've always reminded of Alan Iverson's practice. You're talking about practice, but I mean practice is it's a lost art, it is. It is the most fun play that we could ever have as humans, and there's so many different areas in which we can practice which we don't. We go out there and we play freaking Stanley Cup finals, you know, super Bowl championship on every single thing that we do, we put out there to to the world And we think that if it doesn't get perceived how we hope it would, we've lost, lost. Oh, i know This horrible, horrible thing when, when it is at the playground, the growth is into practice. Yeah, fail and learn. That is the reward, that is life, that is how people get to the top. They don't get there by winning at everything and never learning from growth and never learning from failure.

Patrick Kagan: 25:45

No, my greatest teacher of that was when I coached my daughter in basketball. you know, eighth grade girls are really strong, really athletic, really good. And I've coached her and her group since they were like five years old, all the way up through high school. And I remember you know you could see that as she was the best for a while. and then you get to middle school and she's the best for school but not the best in the league. And then you get to high school and she's at the bottom part and there's others, you know, and so that's just a natural progression of sports.

Patrick Kagan: 26:15

But I remember saying you know, when you talk to my coach, i said no, i absolutely will never talk to your coach, because all they're going to hear is I want you to play more time. That's not what I want. I want you to enjoy the game. But let me ask you, what are you doing different to get better? And she'd be like, well, i mean, you know, i go to the morning practices, i go to the evening practices. I'm like, okay, everybody does that. What are you doing different? And if you want, if you truly want to get better, if you want to start more games, if you want to play more time. don't ask me to talk to your coach And don't you talk to your coach. show your coach, demonstrate, and they'll never see you doing the extras. But if everybody else is practicing and then going home so you've done nothing, how can you expect to get more time? And it doesn't happen from crying and complaining, it happens from and she's like what would you do? I'm like, well, what I would do because I'm short, i would get better at skills they need And I would maybe spend time.

Patrick Kagan: 27:12

I used to say to her 10 shots from 10 spots in your driveway, that's, can you do that? Yeah, i can do that, but she never did Now. I never nagged her about it because that's not what she wanted. Now she went on to be a fantastic biologist doing cancer research. That's a great contribution, but she never became a basketball player. So it weeds itself out.

Patrick Kagan: 27:30

There are people in sales who don't want to be in sales, and so this book isn't all things to all people, but those that are in sales. I've been in it 30 years and they say time equals love. I must love sales, whether I'm leading people, whether I'm just carrying the bag myself, and so if, if I can find a way and I can show your listeners an easier way. jump on board because you, because this book, i tell people you will get rich. but it is not a get rich quick book. You are not going to learn a catchy technique or tactic or some manipulation that you haven't heard. This is not about that. Now. this is about intrinsically proving your value to yourself and to your client, and that's what comes to us.

Chris McCoy: 28:12

Yeah, that story was just epic. I mean, it is everywhere We speak. Value leads, money follows Absolutely, and it's the craziest thing with someone that a job, i'm just not getting paid what I deserve, oh well, really, what do you deserve And why do you believe you deserve it? Because if you're bringing that value, oftentimes you're going to be getting a and listen, definitely employers out there stealing wages and cutting people down. And, with all love, it usually is happening in the place where people are looking for a paycheck, not looking for a career, and looking to invest and grow Absolutely. And so I love everything you're saying in, patrick. It's all aligned with what we teach at NASP and our certifications And it's the principles of becoming, it's the principles of growing, it's the principles of staying internally motivated and externally focused and reminding yourself that don't take things so seriously. Life is fun and easy and it's meant to be. You're meant to be unique, you're meant to be different than everyone else around you, and that's where that's a big part of life is.

Patrick Kagan: 29:17

Yeah, i mean, right now, our political and social culture is about how we're all the same, and I couldn't be more confused by that, because I think there is such value in our differences and our uniqueness. So I talk about the comparability factor versus the differentiation or the distinguishability factors. You wanna distinguish yourself, yet you spend time talking about what makes you comparable. We value ourselves down through what we say and then what we do, and you, just you, can't do that And the whole thing has to come down to. I own this and I see it before I realize it.

Chris McCoy: 29:59

Patrick, i love it. man, y'all gotta get this book. sell the difference, the ultimate guide to increasing sales and customer satisfaction. I love the customer focus of the whole thing. And y'all be different, be you and trust it, trust it, trust it, trust it. This is what life is all about. And listen, here's the thing, the unique. you can sell anything. You can move from one company to the next. Your brand is the most important and your brand is the one that will take those relationships with you From one job to the next, from one career to the next, even if you're not in sales forever. I have relationships from different careers that have gone from beginning to end, and it is not just about the value they can give you. You start with the value they can give them, or that you can give them, and you'll always be happy. Patrick, listen, all right, get the book. Don't forget to use the promo code McCoy.

Patrick Kagan: 30:50

McCoy. Yeah, the only place you can get the book is at our website, pksolutionsgroupcom, and when you go through the checkout it's at the point of purchase And as a promo code put in McCoy, you get another 10% off. So go to pksolutionsgroupcom And I will guarantee this will be something you will carry with you, you will annotate, you will use this and it will absolutely co-elevate you, your peers and your customers.

Chris McCoy: 31:17

Mine's on its way. y'all get yours now. All right, that's another amazing podcast. Patrick, thank you so much for all the value you gave the audience here. We'll definitely have to have you, and when we move over to Music Hill Studios live from Music Hill man you have to come down and join us here. Get out of that Well, tago in January probably, i know I will, that's the perfect place to be.

Chris McCoy: 31:36

All right, y'all, we know what to do. Go ahead down there and leave all those stars like, comment and share the video and get the book And also tune in next week to the next episode of Leads to Grow. We're the National Association of Sales Professionals, take care y'all. Thanks Patrick, thanks Chris.